[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Line Upon Line Ministries podcast. At Line Upon Line, we are committed to the expository ministry of the Word for the life of the local church. I'm your host, Mark Williams. Before we jump into the content of our podcast episode today, I would remind you to check out our website, www. Lineuponlineministries.com, as we update that regularly. If you have any resources from Brother David and you would like to share those with us, we would love to make those available on the website as well. You can send those to
[email protected] on today's episode, we're going to share more of the interview with Brother Jono Sims and then share the third and final sermon in the Philemon series from Brother David Miller entitled the Providence of God.
On the last episode, we shared the first part of our interview with Brother Jono Sims. Now, Brother Jono has been serving faithfully at Shelbyville Mills Baptist Church in Shelbyville, Tennessee for the last 25 years. And so today, today we're going to share more of the interview where we move from talking about Brother David specifically into discussing expository ministry because he has been faithfully serving the Lord in his church for so long. Brother Jono has a wealth of information, so I know you will enjoy and be encouraged by what Brother Johno shares in this part of the interview.
[00:01:52] Speaker C: So you've been at Shelbyville Mills for 25 years now, is that right? And you mentioned already that you were at another church before that was. When did you. Was it that previous church? Was that your first vocational position?
[00:02:09] Speaker D: I actually pastored a church full time when I was in seminary.
[00:02:14] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:02:15] Speaker D: Which was not very wise.
[00:02:16] Speaker C: How long ago was that?
[00:02:21] Speaker D: Oh, man, that's fair. Yeah, I went to seminary. I got saved in 1990. February of 1990. I started seminary at Southwestern in the first semester of 91, and so I graduated in December of 93.
[00:02:44] Speaker C: So you were still just even a fresh Christian by that point?
[00:02:48] Speaker D: Yes, Frankly, Mark, just to be honest with you, Brother, knowing what I know now, I don't think I was scripturally qualified. I think I was a novice.
But the landscape of Southern Baptist churches was and still is unhealthy in a lot of places. And back then, you know, if you said, I'm called to preach, they'd have you up preaching next day, next Sunday, you know, but. And I'm thankful I don't know, other than the sovereignty of God, that God did use it.
He did mature me through that he did use that as a sanctifying agent to prepare me. But some of the things I faced, I wasn't equipped to deal with them. I didn't. I just wasn't ready, you know, thankful for it, thankful God used it. But I did pastor for two, two and a half years there in Texas. And then when I graduated, I received a call to come to Ridgeview Baptist Church in Talladega, Alabama. And I was there for between six and seven years right along in there before I received the call to come to Shelbyville Mills. So a cumulative of 35 years in the ministry.
I was actually serving as a, as a youth director at a church in Alabama where I grew up when I got saved. Oh. So I was one of those lost church members.
And so I was actually had a year of, if you will, ministry to some degree before God actually saved me. And that's when he called me. And yeah, not long after that, we went to seminary.
[00:04:36] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:04:36] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard many stories of guys either saved in ministry or in seminary and realizing, wow, I've not been converted myself.
[00:04:50] Speaker D: If you're going to be a pastor, it helps to be saved.
[00:04:52] Speaker C: It does help.
[00:04:53] Speaker D: I think it helps if you're saved. It really does. No doubt about it. Yeah. Yes, sir.
[00:04:59] Speaker C: So, you know, for the purpose of this podcast, we, you know, we're committed to expository ministry and ministry of the Word. And I use that phrase specifically on purpose because, you know, we talk about expository preaching and by all means it's primary and important and all that, and we'll talk about that in a minute. But I believe ministry of the Word is more than just preaching. We got public and private ministry, counseling, discipleship, teaching in small groups in various ways. And so, you know, our ministry, the line upon the line ministry, is just like David did. I mean, we're committed to expository ministry of the word. So when did that idea, expository preaching, when did that come into your ministry? Was that all along? Was that something that you knew since you knew David for so long, or did that come around later on by God's grace?
[00:05:57] Speaker D: And this is extremely unusual, but when Kayla and I got married, we joined a small church in Florence, Alabama, and the pastor there was an expositor and he was a kind of a long distance disciple of John MacArthur, had all of John MacArthur's commentaries. So he cut his teeth on John MacArthur's commentaries. And so from.
I got married when I was 20. Kayla was 19. We were just kids. But our first church was a very Good experience of expository preaching. When I left there and went to the church where I was the youth director, that pastor was an expositor, my best friend, kind of that I knew in the preacher realm was an expositor.
There was another good expositor in our area, Bob Pittman, who was the pastor at First Baptist Church Muscle shows, which is now Grace Life Church of Muscle Shows, where Jeff Noblitt is. Bob Pittman was Jeff's pastor. Bob was a very good exposure. Still is. And then Brother Jeff is a verse by verse exposure. So thank the Lord. It's just the cloth I was cut out of now. Not growing up as a boy, but from my married life till today, God surrounded me with men who rightly divided the word of truth. And I remember when Kayla and I again, I was 20, she was 19. For the first time in my life, when I would hear Brother Roger preach, it made sense. I could actually see, hey, I can see where he's getting that from. And I could take good notes. And I just found myself, like, when I would read a passage of scripture, outlining it and just, you know, breaking it down in chunks to where, you know, I could remember it. And so when God called me to preach, I kind of already had that foundation as a. As a backdrop to get started out on. I am so thankful for that.
My pastors taught me expository preaching just by what they do in the example.
[00:08:15] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So did then when you went to seminary, was. Was that expository preaching classes or like, did the technical aspects of, you know, the Greek and all that kind of stuff? Like, how did. Did that help you at all? Or was there. I don't know what the seminary was like back then, but it didn't. It didn't.
[00:08:36] Speaker D: It didn't. Brother Southwestern was in a horrible place.
[00:08:39] Speaker C: O.
[00:08:40] Speaker D: That was in the throes of the.
They called themselves moderates, but they're liberals. That was the throes of the liberal conservative battle going on.
And the seminary just wasn't healthy at all. So truthfully, my faith wasn't undergirded, it was underminded. I don't know if that's a word or not, but literally, for the three years that I was there, for the most part, my faith was attacked more than affirmed.
But I had a strong foundation. I'm thankful for that. And I kind of knew to some degree what I believed. And so they weren't able to divert me or distract me. But I didn't get anything there in the preaching realm. And there were some good Brothers there, thank God. God always has his people. And there were some solid brothers there that I did fellowship with and did enjoy, but they were the exception, not the rule. And so expository preaching wasn't a flame they fanned there at all. As a matter of fact, they kind of disdained that.
And so really, my growth in expository preaching just came through doing it.
[00:10:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:10:04] Speaker D: I kind of was. Now, I will tell you this. I took a hermeneutics class there. That was very helpful.
[00:10:09] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:10:09] Speaker D: That brother did a good job. And thank the Lord he did a very good job. I would give him A plus marks. And so that was a gym that I needed and helped me tremendously.
Very thankful for that brother.
But I kind of learned from taking what my pastors did in the pulpit, how I saw them handle a text and just using that as the foundation and then reading good commentaries.
John MacArthur is kind of my hero in the faith.
I don't think any man's had a greater impact on me than him an expositor his commentaries have just been such rich help for me to help me see how to handle a text. And then you enlarge from there.
But I'm so thankful for his ministry and life. Had a profound impact in my life.
[00:11:06] Speaker C: Okay, so your training, so to speak, was more of a on the job kind of.
[00:11:12] Speaker D: Yeah, very much. Very much so. I'm glad I was given that expository preaching foundation from my church, from my local church, and I was able to build on that.
[00:11:25] Speaker C: What a testimony to just faithful preaching. Yes, it has a bigger impact than we realize as preachers.
Not just on, you know, hey, we want to get across this message, but as an example to potential young men who are going to grow up and be elders or pastors in church and preach.
[00:11:47] Speaker D: And I think you probably saw this at the True Church conference this year. But that's why we so strongly emphasize the pastoral training institute that we do. The guys that come to that, they get the classical, they get church history, they get Greek, they get Hebrew, they get Dr. Tom Nettles history course and Tim Seals Greek class, and they get surveys of books, and they get pastoral ministries, but they're also getting how to do church discipline, how to do small groups, how to do biblical counseling, and it's all in the context of the local church.
So it's bridging the gap a little bit between what classical seminary would be and what the local church is.
And we just believe that all theology is local church theology. God doesn't give us theology just to Sit around and debate at the pub. He gives us theology to walk out in our church.
[00:12:46] Speaker C: If it's not practical, it's not useful.
[00:12:50] Speaker D: Why did God give it?
[00:12:51] Speaker C: Exactly.
If there's no praxi, if there's no worship that follows sound doctrine, then you might want to test whether that's really sound doctrine.
[00:13:03] Speaker D: The crown jewel of everything is Christ Church.
[00:13:06] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:13:06] Speaker D: And everything he does is with her in view. And so that's what's been My salvation is just to be. Just to be a local church guy, just to give my life and everything I do to Christ's church. I can only pastor one. And so the Lord expects me to give that one all I have. And that's what I'm trying to do.
[00:13:28] Speaker C: So how does your.
Let me ask this different. What role does expository ministry, preaching, those kinds of things play in your life personally and then in the life of your local church? Then let's just lay it out there.
[00:13:45] Speaker D: I think it does the same thing for me personally that it does for my local church. And that is, it teaches me to think biblically.
[00:13:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:54] Speaker D: So I've been a lifelong student of the wisdom literature.
I've spent the lines portion of my devotional time in what I call the proverb of the day and reading the Psalms, whatever day of the month it is I've taught our people. You read that proverb that day and then you just lather, rinse, repeat, month after month, do it over and over again.
And so really, brother, either in precept or principle, there is guiding wisdom in God's word for every single scenario in this life you can ever face.
Since I've been saved, I've not come up against anything to where I'm just like, I'm at a loss. I don't know what to do. I can either turn to the scriptures or Psalm 11, you know, blessed is a man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly. But you go to godly counselors, by wise counsel, you will make your war. There's safety in a multitude of counselors. And through the knowledge God has given me of the Word. And then I might call you up. Brother David was one of the men that I would always go to, Brother Jeff, other pastors that have been doing it, you know, it helps me to know the will of God. It helps me to know which way God would have me go, rather than just, you know, randomly just kind of flounder through life. And so it brings great peace to your heart. It affects everything, Brother the way your finances, the way you raise your children, the way you conduct your business, the way you file your taxes. We're coming up on tax season. I mean, literally. I mean, it literally affects everything you do. The way you carry yourself, your speech. Is it as of grace season with salt? The way you deal with conflict, the way you do conflict resolution, what church you go to, and it affects how you teach a small group.
And year after year after year after year, when you do expository preaching, and that's rightly dividing the word of truth, it's building people up on their most holy faith. First. Thessalonians says, this is the will of God, even your sanctification. And so as people mature and they grow in the knowledge of the Lord, they're going to grow in holiness, Christ, likeness, love of their neighbor. And all of those things I pray are taking place in me. And because they're first taking place in me, like begets, like I've always said, churches don't rise above their leadership.
That bleeds over to the congregation, and they begin to take on the likeness of Jesus. And because you're washing them with the water of the Word and mine, and your responsibility is to equip the saints as pastor teachers for the work of the ministry. They're only equipped by the preaching of the word of God, by sound counsel and biblical counsel and biblical guidance.
And I know we're probably going to delve into this, too, because you said, moving beyond the pulpit. But I've always maintained that expository preaching is biblical counsel. Now, certainly it moves to the pastor's office sometimes. And I've also maintained that expository preaching is church discipline. Because I'll tell you, brother, if you divide God's word verse by verse, book by book, line by line, it's going to separate the sheep and the goats. It just does. It might not be anything you're intentionally like, okay, you know, removing someone. But I'm telling you, when you preach God's word, it will purify the church and it will take the chaff away from the wheat. God uses it to purify his bride.
[00:17:42] Speaker C: Yeah. So how have you seen the work of expository ministry actually play out in your church? Like, you've been at Shelbyville now 25 years, so you have a good long view of the church and what faithful expository preaching will do in the life of the church. What have you seen?
[00:18:07] Speaker D: Maturity, Growth. Now, I want to be careful to say, brother, and the Lord constantly deals with me about this, and I'M glad he does. The Spirit God always contends with me about this. You can't get prideful. You can't get arrogant. If you do, God resists the proud and he'll show you real quick how little you can do without Him.
He'll make a believer out of you real fast. But at the same time, there's a proper and a right way to say that God has grown us and he has matured us. Now you never arrive. Sanctification is progressive. It's always happening. But the church should more and more and more look like Jesus Christ. And let me say this, the church should more and more and more and more look like the New Testament.
What the apostles were doing in the church.
The church should be more and more and more being refined to look like that. We don't need a new model or a new approach to strive at.
Biblical ministry is not moving toward a cutting edge, new, relevant model. Biblical Christianity is moving back 2,000 years to the foundation of the apostles and the prophets. Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone. We ought not be looking more like the latest new fad down the street. We ought to be looking more and more like 2,000 years ago. That's our goal, is to be thoroughly biblical. And so some practical ways, brother and man, we can plumb the depths on this. But, you know, I'll just kind of rattle them off. But what is biblical church membership? Who can join the church?
Who's qualified and ready to be baptized?
Who's ready to take the Lord's Supper? Those are some things churches never even ask.
Who's qualified to be a pastor? Who's qualified to be a deacon?
Those are the things that will determine what your church is going to. It'll never be more than that.
How does a church practice church discipline? Because here's the thing. Christ commands that. That's a command of Jesus Christ. Those words are in red. Matthew, chapter 18. So how do we do that?
How do we do world missions? Do we just pay the mission board and expect the experts to do missions for us? Or did Christ give the great Commission to the local church? How are we going? How are we making disciples? How are we planting churches? How are we raising up pastors? How are we sending them out? Who do we ordain for ministry? How do we do that? What does an ordination council look like?
All of these things, brother, are things that expository preaching over time, and it takes a lot of time. And pastors have to be patient. And that's the problem with some of us. We get Impatient, and we make some bad blunders. But if a guy will be patient and let the spirit of God do his work through the Word, the Lord will build his church. And so we're not perfect, man. But I will say this.
I just came out of a pastors deacons meeting this past Sunday, and brother, honestly, this is just the truth. We had a pastoral intern there. I'll tell you his name, Casey Jones, he's the CEO of Helen Keller Hospital in Sheffield, Alabama. Started going to Grace Life. God's called him to preach. He said, brother John O, I want some help. I said, okay, come to our church on Sunday. You attend elders deacons meeting.
You'll preach Sunday night. And Monday morning you come to staff meeting. And I told him, I said, casey, you're going to get more in a weekend boots on the ground pastoral ministry than you would three years at seminary. What I experienced, it may be better nowadays. And I told him before we went into the pastors deacons meeting, I said, casey, what you're going to see is complete openness, transparency. That's probably going to be shocking to you. I said, brother, we're brutally honest with each other. And these are grown men. They've been taught the Word, and I trust them. And they have the right to speak their heart. And those guys do brother and man, typically, like on a church discipline case or something like that. They're way out in front of me. I mean, they see it and they're loving about it. But a brother will speak up and he'll say, we got this situation. The Bible says we got to go to the brother. I need somebody to go with me. Tuesday night, two brothers will raise their hand. Off they go. They come back, ask the pastor if it needs to go to a final step of removal from the church that needs pastoral oversight. The pastor needs to lead that for the congregation. But these guys, brother will lead it all the way up to that point.
And. And so instead of a group of pastors and deacons opposing their lead pastor, opposing the preaching pastor making his job grievous, as Hebrews 13 says, they're making it a joy.
And it's not perfect. And I shared with you before we went on air here how my heart, how I've been grieving and struggling, and personally, there's some things I've been facing.
It's not that you ever get to a point to where your heart can't be wounded or you don't worry, there's not some anxiety and some fear, but my goodness, brother, what a Comfort is that I don't stand alone. I'm not alone. Brother Mark.
I've got a group of men that are not perfect, but they're blood earnest about the church being the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. That only comes through biblical authority only. So I tell pastors all the time, job number one, this is going to take you five to ten years. Establish biblical authority, establish the fact that the Bible is going to be our running board. Everything we do is going to be what saith the Scriptures, Romans 4, 3. And so every decision we make, every choice we make is going to be guided by the book. And when your people see that and you consistently walk it out, they start to believe it.
They say, man, he's serious about this. And they just know when you go to the pastor, he's not going to give you his opinion or what he thinks or what he read in a book. He's got the first words out of his mouth. Well, the Bible says. Well, the Bible says. Well, the Bible says. And that comes through expository ministry.
[00:24:50] Speaker C: Brother.
[00:24:51] Speaker D: I probably became the pastor at Shelbyville Mills Baptist church at year 10 in function and operation.
Now, there's some brothers that have said, no, brother, you were the pastor. You were preaching the truth. And I get that. But I mean, the ability to lead and the way that I'm leading now, it just takes a long time for people to see that you're serious and that you're consistent and that they can trust you. And it calls for great patience to help people to come to that conclusion. I tell people all the time, when I went to Shelbyville Mills, I think our pulpit is four feet wide. When I went to Shelbyville Mills, I had four feet. That's all I had. I was locked down. I didn't have any authority to make decisions. Any decision I tried to make was quickly contested. I had four feet. So here's what I did. I took that four feet and it proved to be enough.
If you preach the word of God from however wide your pulpit is, if you preach the word of God week in, week out, in season out of season, the Lord begins to change hearts. He begins to change minds, so that you can then go to them and say, now let's look at this scripture right here. And let's see, what does this mean, brothers? And are we in compliance with this or are we out of compliance with it? And so that's kind of what happened at Shelbyville Mills. And now, Mark, the truth is, man, to me, this is the most rewarding part of ministry. Now God's raising up young men all the time.
We've probably got three or four or five of our deacons that were probably seven years old when I went to Shelbyville Mills. And we've got a couple, my two associate pastors, they were in junior high school and now they're pastors. We got another young man that just. He's been wrestling with a call for a few years and he called me up this week and he said, pastor, it's settled. My wife and I, we see it. I believe God has called me. I'm ready, I'm ready. What do I need to do?
[00:26:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:59] Speaker D: And so that is so rewarding to see these guys coming up. And I really do. And I'm not saying a church, you know, Shelby Mills called me from outside tumbling shows, and that's okay. God does that. But I do believe there's a more excellent way. And it doesn't always work perfectly. But if we can raise up leaders from within that already love us, that already know us, that already have a feel for how we function and operate, I believe that's a more excellent way. And so as God allows us to do that, that's kind of what we're purposed to do.
[00:27:33] Speaker C: And all of that comes about over time through consistent expository ministry. Preaching from the pulpit.
[00:27:41] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:27:41] Speaker C: I think David, David even pounded that into my head the last couple years that I knew him with, you know, that that needs to be primary. And as goes the pulpit, so goes the church, everything. And it's good to hear that, especially from somebody who's been doing it, you know, 25 years, the same church. You're able to see how the Lord works through. Because I can tell you personally, I've been in a couple other churches that I was a pastor, short term pastorate, you know, difficult situations, don't have to get into all that. But, but so coming here because of that experience, you almost have this short term ministry model.
[00:28:22] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:28:22] Speaker C: And you're like, how much can I get done right now?
[00:28:24] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:28:25] Speaker C: And because I don't know if I'm gonna be here next year.
[00:28:27] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:28:28] Speaker C: And so it's, it's now that I'm three years in and, and I'm still trying to undo a lot of that kind of mentality, trying to have that long game in place.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: It's.
[00:28:38] Speaker C: It's hard to see some of the effects of expository preaching. They're there and I'm praise the Lord for them and I see them, but man, it's hard not to get kind of like why, why, why aren't we here? Why aren't we there yet? Why is, you know, right.
But I'm only three years in. You're talking with 25 years at the same church behind you.
That's an encouragement that the Word does do its work, that the Holy Spirit does do his work through His Word.
And it all comes again as we're faithful to actually just preach what His Word actually says.
It's an encouragement to hear that from you.
[00:29:25] Speaker D: Brother Jeff says all the time, and I think we're enlarging it now, but Brother Jeff says all the time, he says, guys, you've got to have a 20 year vision. You got to have a 20 year. And I'm now saying, no, we need to say that needs to be 30 or 35. And in the early years at Shelby Mills, I mean, I had nobody standing with me, none of the deacons.
Honestly, I went in every day thinking this would be my last day. That went on for that dispensation was about two and a half years, maybe three, where there wasn't a question, there wasn't a question mark over my head, there was a noose. And I just literally mark. I didn't know if I was going to survive another week. We lived from week to week and all I did was preach the word. I couldn't change anything, couldn't do anything. All I could do was go to that pulpit and just preach the next text. So when you don't know what to do, do what you know to do. And that's all I had, that's all I did. And in those early years, I would call Brother Jeff on Monday morning. And Monday morning is not a day you want to make decisions.
[00:30:34] Speaker C: No, not as a pastor.
[00:30:36] Speaker D: You know, you're discouraged, you're depressed, you're down, you know. But I would call Brother Jeff up and I'd say, brother, it ain't happening here. And he said, yes, it is. And I said, I'm telling you, brother, you're not here. I'm here. I can tell you it's not happening. And he said, brother, it is happening. He said, it's happening because God's word is not going to return void. And he said, brother, right now, he said, you're down in the basement and there's a 20 watt light bulb and that's all you got. And you got a pick and a shovel and a five gallon bucket and you're down there by yourself and it's cold and it's dirty and it's wet and damp. And stinky work. And he said, you're taking five gallon bucket loads up the stairs and out and throwing it out and you're breaking up rock. And it's just one chip at a time. He said, you just keep chipping away, keep chipping away. And he said, sooner or later, somebody's going to join you down there. But until they do, you've got to be faithful. And brother, he was right and I was wrong.
The Lord was building his church, but it wasn't in ways I thought he was. It was the basement work, it was the foundation work, which is not glamorous, it's not romantic.
People don't appreciate you. As a matter of fact, they disdain you for it.
But you just have to be faithful always. But especially in those early years to do the hard work. And sometimes all you've got is just you, the Holy Spirit, and the word of God. Really, that's all you've got anyway. But in time, the Lord begins to raise up other guys with picks and shovels. And man, when you get half a dozen guys and then a dozen down there digging with you, things begin to change. But it just takes time. And those early years, Satan will mess with your brain and make you think you're crazy. You've lost your mind. Which is why, brother, we need something like the true church conference. Years ago, I went to 10 Shepherd's Conferences in a row at John MacArthur Shepherd's Conference.
And that was the only time I had guys telling me, you're not crazy, you're not insane, you haven't lost your mind. I would go up there and I'd be normal. Matter of fact, I'd go up there and I'm way behind normal. I need to catch up. But it's just good to be around guys. And that's why I enjoy being around you. It's good to be around guys to say to one another, you're not crazy. You are doing right. Press on.
Because it can get confusing when you don't see results. And you know, in those early years, brother, and I hate to say this, this will make some brothers gasp, but in those early years, had to let some church discipline cases go. Church wasn't healthy enough to deal with it.
[00:33:13] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:33:13] Speaker D: Just wasn't healthy enough to deal with it. I mean, if a guy's on the table and he needs a triple bypass, you don't also do a lung transplant, right?
You can't do major surgery on a guy that's about to die. So you do the triple bypass, you give him three or four years and then you do the lung transplant.
[00:33:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:32] Speaker D: Hopefully he survives that. And some of our Baptist churches are so sick and they're so anemic and so weak.
You have to be careful or you'll kill it.
There's just so many things, there's wisdom in that that you have to be patient with.
And so you have to have a multiple decades vision of waiting.
Now, you don't want to get into passivity, but just of not getting out ahead of God and what he's doing to build his church.
[00:34:03] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think that I heard that at the True Church Conference, Brother Jeff kind of said some of that same thing.
And by the way, like you were talking about going to Shepherd's Conference, going over to the True Church Conference. That was my first time to even be over there. It was like I came back on Sunday and I told our church, I said, I've been to the SBC years in a row, however, and I always feel like I know a few people here and there are some good friends that I connect with, but kind of feel like an outsider in this camp. And whenever I came over to the True Church Conference, like, these are our people.
[00:34:37] Speaker D: This is people. This is home.
[00:34:39] Speaker C: This is home.
So I get that.
[00:34:42] Speaker D: Well, that's the way we feel toward you, bro. That's the way I felt towards you the first time I met you. And you know, as far as I'm concerned, brother, you're one of us.
And that's because of who you are. And that's because of biblical authority. That's because of expository preaching. And wherever a guy is in his journey, first step, two millionth step story is the same. Preach the word and in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all long suffering and doctrine. That's the way God builds his church.
[00:35:16] Speaker C: And if he's been doing that all along, why do we think we can come in and change the. Change the program?
[00:35:25] Speaker D: You can't improve upon perfection.
[00:35:27] Speaker C: Right.
[00:35:27] Speaker D: And God's word is perfect.
[00:35:29] Speaker C: It's perfect.
[00:35:29] Speaker D: It's perfect. It's the perfect treasure of God.
The Baptist faith and message says, in all faith and practice, the Scripture shall be our sole guide in all matters of faith and practice. I say hallelujah.
[00:35:45] Speaker C: Amen.
[00:35:46] Speaker D: That's amen. That's what we want. We want the Scripture to be our sole guide.
[00:35:51] Speaker C: That's right. So if we believe this, if we believe that, if we believe the scriptures are sufficient, then yes, that's what we got to preach.
[00:35:58] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: As I mentioned in the previous episode, Brother Jono publishes his sermons in commentaries.
[00:36:06] Speaker C: And makes those available for sale online.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: And so today's recommended resource is once again his commentaries. This one is on the book of Ephesians and he has many more from the books that he has preached through. You can pick up this book and many other recommended resources on our store on our
[email protected] Store one of the things we've loved most about Brother David Miller is his commitment to strong, sound biblical theology that is birthed from solid exposition of scripture. Today's classic sermon by Brother David is the final in his Philemon series. From verses 15 and 16 on the Providence of God.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: I invite you to turn, please to the New Testament book of Philemon. We shall begin at verse one. I want to talk to you tonight about the providence of God.
Are you Interested?
Philemon Chapter 1 All right, let's begin.
Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy, our brother unto Philemon, our dearly beloved and fellow laborer, and to our beloved Aphea and our Chippas, our fellow soldier, and to the church in thy house.
Grace to you, and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
I thank my God, making mention of you always in my prayers, hearing of thy love and faith which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus and toward all saints, that the communication of thy faith and love may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you, in Christ Jesus. For we have great consolation and joy in thy love, because the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.
Wherefore though I might be much bold in Christ to enjoin thee that which is convenient, yet for love's sake, I rather beseech thee, being such an one as Paul the aged, and now also the prisoner of Jesus Christ, I beseech thee for my son, O Nesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds, which in time past was to thee unprofitable, but now profitable to thee, and to me whom I have sent again.
Thou therefore receive him that is mine own bowels, whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel, but without thy mind I would do nothing that thy benefit might not be, as it were of necessity, but willingly for perhaps he departed therefore for a season, that thou shouldest receive him forever, not as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially unto me. But how much more unto thee, both in the flesh and in the Lord, if thou therefore count me a partner, receive him as more myself. If he hath wronged thee or oeth thee ought put that on mine account.
I, Paul, have written it with mine own. I will repay it.
Albeit I do not say to thee how thou owest to me thine own self. Besides, yea, brother, let me have joy of thee in the Lord. Refresh my bowels in the Lord, but withal prepare me also a lodging. For I trust that through your prayers I shall be given unto you. There saluteth thee, Epaphras, our fellow prisoner, Marcus Aristarchus Demas Lucas, our fellow soldiers or laborers. The grace of our Lord's Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Amen.
The providence of God.
I want to do two things. One, I want to give you an explanation of our theme. And then I want to give an exposition of our text. As you might imagine, the key verse in our chapter tonight is this statement. Perhaps he departed, therefore for a season, that thou shouldest receive him forever. Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved. We see here the government, the control that God exists, exercises over the affairs of men.
Now, by way of explanation regarding this doctrine of Providence, I want to quote for you Article 4 in the abstract of Principles.
The Abstract of Principles is the confessional document for the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville. It is also the confessional document for the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in North Carolina.
You are aware that our convention was started in 1845.
We did not have a confessional doctrine document in those early days. Now, the reason for that was simple. In order for a church to be a member of the national Convention, it first had to be a member in good standing with a local Baptist association. In those days, the local associations had comprehensive and strict doctrinal guidelines. So things equal to the same thing are equal to each other. If you were a member in good standing with a local association that said to the national Convention, this church has sound doctrine. And so it wasn't really necessary have a confessional document.
In 1859, the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary was established. And the seminary needed a confessional document. They needed some Articles of Faith by which they would hire professors, and for that by matter, fire them if necessary. Professors were required to teach consistent with and not contrary to the Abstract of Principles.
They drew up 20 articles of faith. I want you to listen to Article 4 on the subject of Proverbs.
Now, you're going to have to listen carefully because you're going to have to repeat this to me. All right? Are you ready? Here's what Article 4 says God from eternity either decrees or permits all things that come to pass and perpetually governs, directs and upholds all creatures and all events yet so as not in any wise to be the author or approver of sin, nor to destroy the free will and responsibility of intelligent creatures.
Now repeat that for me. Did you get it?
Alright, this is a slow class. I'm going to say it again.
Are you ready, brother Dick? Got the first line? He said. All right. Here it God from eternity either decrees or permits all things that come to pass and perpetually upholds, governs and directs all creatures and all events yet so as not to be the author or approver of sin, nor to destroy the free will and responsibility of intelligent creatures. Now, simply put, Providence is the sovereignty of God giving expression of its existence.
Providence is the governmental control that God exercises over the affairs of the universe in general and over the affairs of men in particular.
And we sing about that.
Our God raised.
Our God reigns. And you and I are glad he does, aren't we?
God is in control.
Now I want to delineate the providence of God a bit further. I want to tell you that usually there are at least four aspects to God's providence.
There is a magnum aspect. By that I mean God is in charge of the big stuff.
God is in charge of the universe, and that's big.
You and I live in a cosmos rather than in chaos because Jesus upholds all things by the word of his power.
That's big, isn't it? Our planet Earth is in the Milky Way galaxy. And the Milky Way is so big. If at the dawn of creation you had saddled up and commenced to ride a light beam from one end to the opposite end of the Milky Way at the speed of light, 186,000 miles per second rounded off, you'd only be about 1/10 of the way today if you'd been round from the dawn of creation.
That's big.
And yet there are other galaxies, many of them larger than the Milky Way.
God controls the harmony and the unity and the balance of all of that. God's in charge. And let me tell you something. God's in charge of the big things here on planet Earth. The heart of the King is in the hand of the Lord. He turneth it whithersoever he will. Aren't you glad? Aren't you glad when you tune in to Fox News, fair and balanced, and you hear what Ahmadinejad is up to in Iran, and you hear what the fellow over North Korea is up to and you read about Chavez down in Venezuela and we wonder about these things and sometimes we worry a little about it. But you know what? Those of us who believe God's book should never have to take more than a half of a baby aspirin to put that aside and sleep well at night because God's got all that under control.
God's got that under control. Now I'm as bad as any of you to get worked up over this political process. And we are in the middle of right now. I get red headed about some of that stuff.
I wish they let me handle it.
I'd tell them how the cow ate the cabbage in a heartbeat.
But I'm glad I'm not in control.
Let me tell you something. God's going to work all of that out. Even if it's Hillary, I'm telling you God's still going to be in control. If it's Obama, I want to tell you, God almighty still going to be in control. If it's McCain, our God reigns.
Some of you wanted me to say our God reigns with McCain any which of way it falls out. I'm telling you God's in charge of that. God's in charge of the big stuff in life. But let me tell you, God's in charge of the minute stuff.
God's in charge of the little stuff, insignificant and mundane seemingly. Let me encourage you to get you a pad and a pen and begin to write down to chronicle even the insignificant things in your life that God is doing. Just the mundane things, everyday occurrences. You know why? One day you might face a crisis and you can get that pad down and you can go back and read that and you can begin to sing. I may not know how and I may not know when, but he'll do it again.
In charge of the little things. Learn how to pray. Learn how to trust God with the everyday, mundane and minute details of your life. And let me tell you there is a mysterious aspect to providence.
We don't always understand what God's up to when we're in the process.
We can't always see God's hand.
It's mysterious.
Joshua asked me a question this evening just before we left for church.
How can we explain what happened last night?
3 o'clock, the young man who works for me, who drives for me and assists me, Mark Robbins, many of you have met here. He was asleep in his room at his parents home last night. His parents were away in Texas and his brother, two years older than him and some of his friends came to the house. And he heard gunshots. And when he rushed in, his brother was gasping his last breath. And he died in Mark's army. And another young man was shot. And only God knows if he will live or die today.
And Josh said, dad, how can we answer the questions about this?
He said, can you give me a verse?
I said, Deuteronomy, chapter 29, 29 says, the revealed things belong unto us, but the secret things belong unto God. God hadn't revealed everything that he knows and everything that he does to us, but this we know God will do, right? And I said, son, God in grace allowed this young man to live for 24 years.
He allowed him to live in a community where there was a gospel church on every corner. That's grace. Let us not charge God with foolishness. God is in charge. And listen, often there's a mysterious aspect to providence. Are y'all getting this? Brother Gerald, it's good to have you here. Are you getting this? Amen. God's in charge, isn't he? And we yield and we give thanks for that, even though it is mysterious to us. And then let me tell you, there's a merciful aspect. Isn't it a mercy to the people of God that when we can't see God's hand, we can trust God's heart. We can know that he's in charge.
[00:54:51] Speaker B: The providence of God is one of the most comforting doctrines in Scripture. Knowing that God is not only present but active in our lives brings comfort to the believer. Oftentimes God's providence is debated regarding man's responsibility and predestination and those kinds of things. But the providence of God is meant to be a comfort to us. So if you find yourself in a difficult chapter of your life, believer, hold fast to God. He is in control. He is sovereign, and he is working all things for your good and for his glory. Please enjoy the rest of Brother David's sermon. The providence of God.
[00:55:36] Speaker A: Well, that's my explanation for the theme. Now I want to give you an exposition of the text. I want to relate the providence of God in the lives of these three men in the text. Paul and Philemon and Onesimus.
You remember the story of the apostle Paul, Saul of Tarsus on his way to Damascus with letters from the authorities to arrest the Christians and put them into jail. He stood by and kept the clothes of those who stoned Stephen.
But God struck him down and arrested his heart on the road to Damascus and saved him. And Saul of Tarsus became the great apostle Paul. He went on missionary campaigns he returned to Antioch, gave reports, and he went again.
And when he came back to Jerusalem, the Jews were stirred up against him. 40 men made a vow that they would not eat until they had killed Paul. But. But providentially, a young lad, just a small boy, overheard their conniving and told Paul and then told the authorities. And Paul was rescued and carried up to Caesarea and was in jail there for a while, until at last he made his appeal to Rome. He was a Roman citizen and had the right to appeal all the way to Caesar.
And when he arrived in Rome at last, they allowed him to have his own hired house. He could rent a house now he was still in chains. They chained his arm to the arm of a Roman soldier and. And yet Paul was able to entertain people. He would have people come to his place, and he would preach the gospel. Now, that's a pretty good deal.
Well, let me just ask it this way. Was Paul chained to the guard?
Or providentially, was the guard chained to Paul?
Because here the guard were day and night hearing the gospel. And when Paul writes to the church at Philippi, he says, I want you to know that the things which have happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel. He said, many in Caesar's household have come to know Christ as savior. And many of the brethren have been emboldened to preach, preach the gospel without fear.
Keep that in mind.
Paul, by providence, is in jail at Rome.
Now, Philemon, how does the providence of God play itself out in his life? Probably he was a wealthy businessman.
Many of the scholars say he probably came into contact with Paul when Paul was preaching the gospel in Ephesus.
Perhaps Philemon had traveled there on business. And there was quite a stir in the city of Ephesus regarding the preaching of the apostle Paul. So some of you will remember the silversmiths were all upset because so many people had been converted. They had given up their idols and they had burned books and done this and that, and revival had broken out. And there was a great door open to Paul there. And Philemon came into contact with the great apostle, heard the gospel and was converted. He went back to his home at Colossae and probably told his family about his conversion. He had servants, he had slaves, and some of them were converted. And so he just started up a church in his own home. And people from the Colossae community would come to Philemon's home and attend church services.
Just accident, or was it the providence of God in establishing a church? Who knows what impact the Tumblin Shoals Church has had as people have been saved here and as they've gone out to other communities.
We'll have to wait till we get home to heaven to know for sure what the girls in Korea have accomplished this very day.
That's the providence of God.
Now, Philemon had a slave named Onesimus.
And his name is profitable. It's useful.
But Onesimus hadn't had a good attitude. He hadn't been worth all that much. Now, Brother Gary, don't answer this question, but have you ever had any employees that didn't have the best attitude in the world? And when folks don't have a good attitude, they seldom have a good work ethic.
A bad attitude and bad work ethic seem to be the two sides of the same coin. And so Onesimus, though his name was useful, he himself was useless to his master.
And after a while, Onesimus either saved up enough money or perhaps, as many of the scholars suggest, he stole money from his master Philemon, and he ran away.
He evidently wanted to get as far away from Philemon as he possibly could.
Now, what did Philemon think about this? Here he is saved. He has opened his home and hosted and housed the Church of the Lord Jesus. He has given of his time and energy and monies to Christians in need. He had refreshed their hearts with his love toward them.
Perhaps the enemy came to him and said, is this the way your God repays you for your faithfulness?
Is this what you get in return for the way you have sacrificed on behalf of the Lord's Church? Are you listening?
Has that ever happened to you?
Often it seems like the very hand that feeds people will get bitten. Have you ever noticed that? And the enemy comes and says, this is all worthless.
This is the way you get repaid. And perhaps he's wondered about that. He's lost a very valuable commodity. He hasn't gotten to the place of sanctification yet, where he knows how to treat a slave, how to give them freedom and liberty. And so he's wondering about this from his perspective.
Let's see how the providence of God plays itself out in Onesimus experience.
He gets to Rome, and Rome is a busy and bustling city, big town, and he thinks, I'll never be found out here.
No one knows that I'm here. I'm free at last. Free at last only to have Providence have the greatest preacher that ever walked the face of the earth waiting for him when he gets to Rome. We are not given the details of how the two came together. But this much we know. It was Providence who arranged the meeting.
And after a while, perhaps, Paul discovered that Onesimus was. Was from Colossae. Now, being a traveling preacher, I'm always going to a new place and meeting new people. And when people find out I am from Heber Springs, they'll say, well, you know, I visited there one time. What was the name of that barbecue place up there?
And I'll help them out a little bit. I said, was it Brothers Barbecue? That's it. They say, that's it, man. That's the best bar. And the first thing you know, we're first cousins or something. That's just. That's the way that goes. And so Paul and Onesimus struck up a conversation and. And when Paul found out that he was from Colossae, he probably said, you are from Colossae. I know a man, a dear brother.
His name is Philemon.
Now, I can't do that thing where you hit your forehead with the palm of your hand. Do it for me, Gary. That's. Don't you know? That was Onesimus's response. Dear me, I traveled a thousand miles to get away from that guy, only to have this bird ask me, do I know Philemon?
That's the providence of God. And Paul preaches the gospel to him.
Now, why did God allow Onesimus to travel a thousand miles?
He could have heard the gospel at Colossae.
I don't have the answer to that question. There's a mysterious aspect to Providence. Why did God allow Philemon to experience this frustration and this sense of loss?
Why did he allow Philemon to have to wrestle with those questions? If God loves me, why has he allowed the to happen?
And if God's in control, why didn't he do something? O Nesimos was better off here with me than he. Than he is wherever else he is. I was taking care of him and I was providing for him. And he was here where he could hear the gospel. Why has God done it this way?
And you just don't always have all the answers, do you?
What do you suppose Philemon did?
When Onesimus returns to Colossae with this letter that we have in our hands tonight, in his hands, and he presents it to Philemon and he reads it. And he reads where Paul says, I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds. He's been saved. Now, in time past, he was to you unprofitable. He was useless. But now he is useful both to you and to me. Receive him as my own heart.
We are not told in this book whether Philemon received him, forgave him, we are left to assume as much.
Don't you know his heart rejoiced in the government of his God?
Now he has a useful servant. Now he has a servant that is profitable. But Paul says he's not just a servant anymore. He is a brother and a beloved brother in the flesh and in the Lord. Do you see the providence of God in these events? Could we apply these lessons on providence to our own church?
Who would have ever dreamed 19 years ago that many foreign countries would have been impacted by the life and ministry of the Tumblin Shoals Baptist Mission? There were only 18 of us, and yet hundreds of lives have been touched by the ministry.
This church. Who would have ever dreamed when we moved into the little white frame building, that one day we'd be sitting in a wonderful building like this that we didn't owe a dime on when we had our first service in it? That's the providence of God.
I want to show you another aspect before I close. A few weeks ago, I was in Pale City, Alabama, and after the service, a man in his 70s came, and his chin was quivering and tears were running down his eyes.
And he said, I want you to pray for my son.
He had a son who was 40 years old.
And he said, my son is in prison in Georgia.
And in a moment he gathered himself and he said, I don't know where I went wrong.
I tried to be a good daddy.
I tried, but I failed.
And my boy is in prison. Would you pray for him?
And the words of Paul to Philemon came instantly to my mind.
And I said, dear brother, I want to tell you the story of Onesimus and Philemon. And I told him how Paul was in jail in Rome and how the slave ran away, and yet he ran into the greatest preacher in the world and believed and was converted and returned home not as a servant, but as a brother, beloved. And I said, sir, perhaps God has allowed your son to be in prison in Georgia today because he has a godly inmate, somebody who's been saved and been sanctified that he's going to place in the path of your son. Perhaps there's a chapter. Perhaps God's got somebody there who's going to witness the gospel to him, who's going to win him to Christ, and one of these days is going to return him home as a useful and profitable son.
Would you hold on to that promise, sir?
And I'm pleased to tell you that in as much as you can discern from the countenance of another man the grace and the glory of God. Use that story to encourage him and to strengthen his hand in God.
Are there troubles in your life?
Are there troubles in the life of your family and your extended family?
Are there things that bring great grief and sorrow?
Are are there questions for which you have no answers?
I want to encourage you to look unto the Lord.
I want to encourage you to hold to his hand, to God's unchanging hand.
Trust God in His providential government to work things out for your good and for God's glory.
When through fiery trials thy pathway shall lie my grace all sufficient shall be thy supply the flame shall not hurt thee. I only design thy dross to consume and thy gold to refine thank God for His property.
[01:14:09] Speaker C: Thank you again for.
[01:14:10] Speaker B: Joining us on this episode of LineupOn Line Ministries podcast. I'm your host, Mark Williams. If you have any questions or would like to get in contact with us, please reach out to
[email protected] and as always, be sure to check out our website lineuponlineministries.com as it is updated regularly with new sermons from Brother David Miller, our podcasts, blog and other things. If you have any prayer requests, I'd also love to hear from you and pray with you and for you. Thank you again for joining us on this episode. God bless you as you continue to study and minister his word, line upon line.
